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	Comments on: Framing is moving at breakneck speed	</title>
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	<link>https://ahousebythepark.com/journal/archive/2009/08/31/framing-is-moving-at-breakneck-speed/</link>
	<description>A House By The Park is a first-hand chronology of the design, planning, and construction of a modern home in Seattle.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 06:31:23 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>
		By: Andy Borgmann		</title>
		<link>https://ahousebythepark.com/journal/archive/2009/08/31/framing-is-moving-at-breakneck-speed/comment-page-1/#comment-7310</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy Borgmann]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 06:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ahousebythepark.com/journal/?p=495#comment-7310</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I missed this post.  But wow!  This is the first post where I got a &quot;feel&quot; of the view.  The location looks amazing and the layout seems to fit the location.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I missed this post.  But wow!  This is the first post where I got a &#8220;feel&#8221; of the view.  The location looks amazing and the layout seems to fit the location.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lou M.		</title>
		<link>https://ahousebythepark.com/journal/archive/2009/08/31/framing-is-moving-at-breakneck-speed/comment-page-1/#comment-7217</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lou M.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 20:22:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ahousebythepark.com/journal/?p=495#comment-7217</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Good to know. Thx!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good to know. Thx!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Julian		</title>
		<link>https://ahousebythepark.com/journal/archive/2009/08/31/framing-is-moving-at-breakneck-speed/comment-page-1/#comment-7215</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Julian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 20:06:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ahousebythepark.com/journal/?p=495#comment-7215</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The bedrooms looked indeed very small. I had wondered how kids would get their beds and desks in there, in case you get kids.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The bedrooms looked indeed very small. I had wondered how kids would get their beds and desks in there, in case you get kids.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike D.		</title>
		<link>https://ahousebythepark.com/journal/archive/2009/08/31/framing-is-moving-at-breakneck-speed/comment-page-1/#comment-7211</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike D.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:03:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ahousebythepark.com/journal/?p=495#comment-7211</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Lou: Sounds great. I can see a day where hopefully that technology is used in all projects.  For the record, the bulk of my stick framing was done in 4 weeks (by three guys), and it&#039;s something like 3700 square feet including garage. Weeks 5 and 6 have been spent on change orders and other details that wouldn&#039;t be part of an initial bid package.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lou: Sounds great. I can see a day where hopefully that technology is used in all projects.  For the record, the bulk of my stick framing was done in 4 weeks (by three guys), and it&#8217;s something like 3700 square feet including garage. Weeks 5 and 6 have been spent on change orders and other details that wouldn&#8217;t be part of an initial bid package.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lou M.		</title>
		<link>https://ahousebythepark.com/journal/archive/2009/08/31/framing-is-moving-at-breakneck-speed/comment-page-1/#comment-7210</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lou M.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 06:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ahousebythepark.com/journal/?p=495#comment-7210</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Darin / Mike

Good to see a healthy debate here on SIP&#039;s. We looked at both options for our custom residence in the Pacific Northwest and the vendor who does the SIP&#039;s panels being local and the cost being
relatively similar between traditional and SIP&#039;s we opted for SIP&#039;s for the environmental impact, the
structural integrity, etc. You both bring up good points on either side of the argument.... No one option
is without its flaws but our contractor is so far promising quicker framing times than 2 months and ours
is a 3,000 sq. ft. project...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darin / Mike</p>
<p>Good to see a healthy debate here on SIP&#8217;s. We looked at both options for our custom residence in the Pacific Northwest and the vendor who does the SIP&#8217;s panels being local and the cost being<br />
relatively similar between traditional and SIP&#8217;s we opted for SIP&#8217;s for the environmental impact, the<br />
structural integrity, etc. You both bring up good points on either side of the argument&#8230;. No one option<br />
is without its flaws but our contractor is so far promising quicker framing times than 2 months and ours<br />
is a 3,000 sq. ft. project&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Darin		</title>
		<link>https://ahousebythepark.com/journal/archive/2009/08/31/framing-is-moving-at-breakneck-speed/comment-page-1/#comment-7184</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Darin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 16:35:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ahousebythepark.com/journal/?p=495#comment-7184</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Lou,

Mike has a few good points about SIPs.  They can be adjusted on site, but not easily.  Also, if you&#039;re doing a more custom project, SIPs may be slower rather than faster.  We&#039;re wrapping up a 2,000 s.f. SIPs project and the framing took about 2 months - twice as long as stick framing.  Much of this was due to custom beams, posts and other miscellaneous structural components that took time to fabricate and install.  If we were to replicate the project, this time would be reduced, but most custom projects are rarely replicated.

Having said that, SIPs and wood framing are two completely different systems.  It&#039;s nearly impossible to frame a stick built wall as energy efficient as SIPs even if you stagger the studs.  It might be a little unfair to compare the two in terms of cost because of this.  While our SIPs experience was slower than expected, we did a blower door test on the house before the windows and doors were foam sealed (before drywall) and saw an ACH of 2.79 - which is incredible.  Code built homes are usually between 6 - 10 ACH and older homes are easily near 15 ACH.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lou,</p>
<p>Mike has a few good points about SIPs.  They can be adjusted on site, but not easily.  Also, if you&#8217;re doing a more custom project, SIPs may be slower rather than faster.  We&#8217;re wrapping up a 2,000 s.f. SIPs project and the framing took about 2 months &#8211; twice as long as stick framing.  Much of this was due to custom beams, posts and other miscellaneous structural components that took time to fabricate and install.  If we were to replicate the project, this time would be reduced, but most custom projects are rarely replicated.</p>
<p>Having said that, SIPs and wood framing are two completely different systems.  It&#8217;s nearly impossible to frame a stick built wall as energy efficient as SIPs even if you stagger the studs.  It might be a little unfair to compare the two in terms of cost because of this.  While our SIPs experience was slower than expected, we did a blower door test on the house before the windows and doors were foam sealed (before drywall) and saw an ACH of 2.79 &#8211; which is incredible.  Code built homes are usually between 6 &#8211; 10 ACH and older homes are easily near 15 ACH.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike D.		</title>
		<link>https://ahousebythepark.com/journal/archive/2009/08/31/framing-is-moving-at-breakneck-speed/comment-page-1/#comment-7181</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike D.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 06:15:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ahousebythepark.com/journal/?p=495#comment-7181</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Lou: The time to manufacture the SIPs is greater though, so it&#039;s not a one-to-one comparison. Also, we&#039;ve had several in-progress changes we&#039;ve made and they&#039;ve been relatively easy so far because the framers can just make easy mods on site rather than have new components specially made. Would be interesting to see a total cost comparison somewhere to see how both methods stack up.  I&#039;m sure that with kit houses, SIPs make a ton of sense... the more you build off-site in a factory the better. With custom homes, it&#039;s probably a lot closer to a toss up.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lou: The time to manufacture the SIPs is greater though, so it&#8217;s not a one-to-one comparison. Also, we&#8217;ve had several in-progress changes we&#8217;ve made and they&#8217;ve been relatively easy so far because the framers can just make easy mods on site rather than have new components specially made. Would be interesting to see a total cost comparison somewhere to see how both methods stack up.  I&#8217;m sure that with kit houses, SIPs make a ton of sense&#8230; the more you build off-site in a factory the better. With custom homes, it&#8217;s probably a lot closer to a toss up.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Lou M.		</title>
		<link>https://ahousebythepark.com/journal/archive/2009/08/31/framing-is-moving-at-breakneck-speed/comment-page-1/#comment-7180</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lou M.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Sep 2009 06:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ahousebythepark.com/journal/?p=495#comment-7180</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thx for the feedback on SIP&#039;s... I know cost wise they are a bit more expensive but you make it up in labor and time (can frame up in a few days vs. weeks, etc...) House is shaping up nicely...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thx for the feedback on SIP&#8217;s&#8230; I know cost wise they are a bit more expensive but you make it up in labor and time (can frame up in a few days vs. weeks, etc&#8230;) House is shaping up nicely&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike D.		</title>
		<link>https://ahousebythepark.com/journal/archive/2009/08/31/framing-is-moving-at-breakneck-speed/comment-page-1/#comment-7172</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike D.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 18:30:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ahousebythepark.com/journal/?p=495#comment-7172</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Lou: Nope, no SIPs.  They look interesting, but we never really talked about them as an option. Even though I think you can use plywood with them, I&#039;m pretty sure they are generally constructed using OSB, which is pretty bad to use in the Northwest where they will get rained on during construction and expand like sponges. Regardless, seems like an interesting technology... probably even more so for homes being built in bulk.

As for framing labor, the house went up pretty quickly (5 or 6 labor weeks with a three person crew) so I feel like we did a pretty good job there.  Might SIPs have been a little quicker? Maybe, but probably not enough to matter.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lou: Nope, no SIPs.  They look interesting, but we never really talked about them as an option. Even though I think you can use plywood with them, I&#8217;m pretty sure they are generally constructed using OSB, which is pretty bad to use in the Northwest where they will get rained on during construction and expand like sponges. Regardless, seems like an interesting technology&#8230; probably even more so for homes being built in bulk.</p>
<p>As for framing labor, the house went up pretty quickly (5 or 6 labor weeks with a three person crew) so I feel like we did a pretty good job there.  Might SIPs have been a little quicker? Maybe, but probably not enough to matter.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lou M.		</title>
		<link>https://ahousebythepark.com/journal/archive/2009/08/31/framing-is-moving-at-breakneck-speed/comment-page-1/#comment-7167</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lou M.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 05:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ahousebythepark.com/journal/?p=495#comment-7167</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mike
Are you using SIP&#039;s panels for framing? More eco-friendly, less labor, quicker framing, etc..? (Structurally Insluated Panels)
http://www.sips.org/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike<br />
Are you using SIP&#8217;s panels for framing? More eco-friendly, less labor, quicker framing, etc..? (Structurally Insluated Panels)<br />
<a href="http://www.sips.org/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.sips.org/</a></p>
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